Athena Brown >> Actually, I believe that was “I really don’t have time for a lot of bullshit.”
^^^ Oh you got time to type nearly 2 screen-widths worth of post, but you don’t have time to debate? Right – just in case this person happens to provide a rebuttal that you simply cannot respond to.
I think you rather strongly suspect that this is the direction it will probably go, so you’ve taken care to provide yourself an easy out. But hey, maybe I’m wrong. Lets test this hypothesis and see.
>> I get paid a lot of money to teach this, and I garner a lot of respect.
^^^ Say, before I get started on the real meat and potatoes here, what university do you teach at? What department?
I’m curious because of what I’m about to cover.
>> Athena, sign up for my classes I will share my wisdom.
^^^ Meanwhile, I can respond to anything you have to say right here on a public forum, completely free of charge.
>> Beginning with sedentary farming and early civilizations, when women lost control of the food supply (they were the gatherers men were the hunters) they became valued for only their reproductive capabilities. This is the beginnings of patriarchy.
^^^ This runs absolutely counter to just about everything we’ve seen in archaeology. It also kind of makes me wonder how in the hell are you a professor on this subject if you got basic history *this* wrong.
https://4thwavers.wordpress.com/…/patriarchy-theory…/ — because I’m sure Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile, lived in a “patriarchy”.
Most early human societies were Matriarchies. I’m not going to re-explain what I already said in the link though.
>> Over and over we see in history how we, as a civilization, become farther from the hunter gatherer roots, we see women lose power/authority.
Anyone still thinking of signing up for her class? Of course you could probably find that PRATT (practically refuted a thousand times) “women have been oppressed for thousands of years” narrative online without paying anything.
It’s gotta suck though when someone can use sources that are 100% free to answer every point you’ve brought up 10 times over.
>> This is what archeology, and the written record has told us, examples being the Hebrews, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Indus River Valley People, Greeks, Arabic Nomads, Some Native American tribes, there are more but I have a migraine.
^^^ Patriarchy didn’t start in Hebrew civilization until around 400 BC, when men attempted to overthrow the Matriarchal society and establish a patralineal system of inheritance.
Egypt was ruled by women, even before and after Cleopatra.
Mesopotamians actually have a long history of Matriarchy, including stories from Elam – which were mentioned on the link I provided.
Minoan Society (Greece) actually had a very long and well established egalitarian society run and ruled by women, which some 2nd Wave Feminist tried to present as evidence that society would be a lot better if women were in charge.
……………… really, what university do you teach at? Not kidding I really want to know.
>> when speaking about the women who SHOULD support you . . . I was instead speaking to the larger group of women as a whole
^^^ I whole heartedly agree. Women are being robbed of their chance to cultivate a sense of community, and build emotionally healthy and fulfilling lives. After all…
Third Wave isn’t about hating men, they just want you to believe men earn more and get more because penis – even when more than 50 peer reviewed studies now prove that there is no connection between sexism and the wage gap. They want you to believe men control everything, and that gender norms aren’t the result of thousands of years of societal evolution, but were purposely designed that way, by men, just to make you miserable.
Third Wave isn’t about hating men, they just want you to believe that anytime a man takes notice in a woman, it’s because they see her as an object, not as a person. They want you to believe that men shouldn’t have the right to comment, or express their opinions in public, without a woman’s permission. And yet men are privileged.
Third Wave isn’t about hating men, they just want you to believe that men are okay with raping women, that nearly every woman experiences rape or attempted rape, because men are always on the verge of wanting to hurt women because that’s what men do, they’ve done it for “thousands of years”, and they’re just barely able to hold themselves back if not for the saintly grace of female victimhood.
And the ultimate result of accepting this incredibly toxic view is the complete inability to find any sense of community. You can’t build relationships with other people in the place where you live, because if a man talks to you on a bus, it’s only because he’s thinking about you in some sexually perverse way. If a man looks at you in the park, he must be staring at you with some sinister intention. If a man pulls out a chair for you, he’s insulting you and thinks you’re a child. It can’t be that white heterosexual cis-men are just being nice, because even if they are just being nice, it means they’re being a “nice-guy” and expecting sex. That’s what all men want, and it’s the only reason they’re nice, because they think about it every 7 seconds. They can’t just be normal people like everyone else.
This is how feminism was hijacked.
The goal of 4th Wavers is to take it back, and re-focus it on legitimate women’s issues – like maternity leave, birth control, or the thousands of rape kits sitting in evidence rooms (the result of a massive administrative and modernization failure, as detailed in a 2011 report from the Justice Department – sorry, no patriarchy here either).
So I absolutely agree, we should stop with the victimizing narrative, and *EMPOWER* women!
>> Look at the AAUW study on girls
^^^ I did actually. A while ago. See, the problem is that I don’t *only* read from sources that say what I already agree with. I do the work of seeking out the opposing research and criticisms, then additional work to trace down the actual facts and what actually happened, THEN reach a conclusion that goes from facts, builds to evidence, then provides proof.
And guess what. I’m not the only one who does that! Here’s another professor who took the time to answer the AAUW study.
Here’s an even more thorough, point-by-point break down, if you like:
Here’s a somewhat related tid-bit from another university professor. http://ideas.time.com/…/school-has-become-too-hostile…/
>> Or look at any of the Killing us Softly videos
^^^ These videos are centered around objectification. Our discussion here is about patriarchy.
But if you want – objectification runs counter to virtually everything we know in psychology (I’m also a certified mental health worker) https://4thwavers.wordpress.com/…/sexual…/ .